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	<title>Comments on: Next Stop: The future of the CTA on the South Side</title>
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	<link>http://chicagoweekly.net/2008/11/20/next-stop-the-future-of-the-cta-on-the-south-side/</link>
	<description>All Sides of the South Side</description>
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		<title>By: From Gray to Gold &#171; Carless in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://chicagoweekly.net/2008/11/20/next-stop-the-future-of-the-cta-on-the-south-side/comment-page-1/#comment-16418</link>
		<dc:creator>From Gray to Gold &#171; Carless in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoweekly.net/?p=562#comment-16418</guid>
		<description>[...] these aren&#8217;t exactly new ideas. Chicago Weekly did a really nice job covering some of these issues last November in a longer piece that also details other proposals for improving South Side service such as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] these aren&#8217;t exactly new ideas. Chicago Weekly did a really nice job covering some of these issues last November in a longer piece that also details other proposals for improving South Side service such as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Buddah</title>
		<link>http://chicagoweekly.net/2008/11/20/next-stop-the-future-of-the-cta-on-the-south-side/comment-page-1/#comment-16206</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoweekly.net/?p=562#comment-16206</guid>
		<description>In regards to all of these pet projects there just that pet projects nothing will get formalized from the gold/grey line as it only purposed as a possibility for the Olympics not for Hyde park. Its better off building the needs to match the city and not the one time needs of the Olympics. What most users and citizens don&#039;t understand it that the CTA will need a dedicated right of way ROW for L train cars The FRA makes sure of that no way around it. Which means 2 new tracks all the way from downtown to 115th st paralleling the current Metra electric line which is a waste of funds. Metra will not be in the business of running metra electric trains every 10 min or so to suite CTA&#039;s needs if the current metra trains and tracks were to be used instead. With the finished overhaul at Millennium station for Metra/NICTD there&#039;s almost no room for a new CTA terminal to be built in the same area. Metra has also said there system is to capacity under FRA guidelines so no new trains could be added on the route without a major overhauls on Metra&#039;s part.

   From downtown to the southside people need to remember it cost nearly $500k per mile of track laid and since a new double track line will be need that&#039;s a cost of $1 million per mile not including concrete pillars, structures, and stations just to lay new track. If CTA really wanted to expand and be cost effective to the south east side then buy the south Chicago Metra electric branch from 70th and Kenwood to 93rd st. and extend the Green line from 63rd and cottage grove down to the Metra/IC make a flyover and build  parallel tracks for CTA use from 63 to 70th and connect it to the south Chicago branch and eliminate the Metra under way connection. This would be at a cost of 1/10th the cost of the Gold/Grey line and provide the same extended CTA rail service for the east side. A similar project was done with the CTA decades ago it it now called the Yellow line (Skokie swift) was once the North shore line.

next the Red line expansion is a good idea but again a different ROW will be needed to keep the cost minimal. Im inclined to say when you have a good idea stick with it and running down the middle of the expressway is the best. Id continue the Red line down I-57 to 119th. st or build it as a branch line that connects to 95th st. station that&#039;s the best possible solution for the lowest cost. 

Orange line yes the poster above was right extending the line would complicate things to much for midway its best to terminate orange line trains at midway and use it as a hub. In that respect a light rail system could be build from midway down to ford city and points further south (Oak lawn) to free up bus transit along Cicero. Again most cost effective solution Only the fact that we would need new light rail train cars and facilities would push the price up for that project.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In regards to all of these pet projects there just that pet projects nothing will get formalized from the gold/grey line as it only purposed as a possibility for the Olympics not for Hyde park. Its better off building the needs to match the city and not the one time needs of the Olympics. What most users and citizens don&#8217;t understand it that the CTA will need a dedicated right of way ROW for L train cars The FRA makes sure of that no way around it. Which means 2 new tracks all the way from downtown to 115th st paralleling the current Metra electric line which is a waste of funds. Metra will not be in the business of running metra electric trains every 10 min or so to suite CTA&#8217;s needs if the current metra trains and tracks were to be used instead. With the finished overhaul at Millennium station for Metra/NICTD there&#8217;s almost no room for a new CTA terminal to be built in the same area. Metra has also said there system is to capacity under FRA guidelines so no new trains could be added on the route without a major overhauls on Metra&#8217;s part.</p>
<p>   From downtown to the southside people need to remember it cost nearly $500k per mile of track laid and since a new double track line will be need that&#8217;s a cost of $1 million per mile not including concrete pillars, structures, and stations just to lay new track. If CTA really wanted to expand and be cost effective to the south east side then buy the south Chicago Metra electric branch from 70th and Kenwood to 93rd st. and extend the Green line from 63rd and cottage grove down to the Metra/IC make a flyover and build  parallel tracks for CTA use from 63 to 70th and connect it to the south Chicago branch and eliminate the Metra under way connection. This would be at a cost of 1/10th the cost of the Gold/Grey line and provide the same extended CTA rail service for the east side. A similar project was done with the CTA decades ago it it now called the Yellow line (Skokie swift) was once the North shore line.</p>
<p>next the Red line expansion is a good idea but again a different ROW will be needed to keep the cost minimal. Im inclined to say when you have a good idea stick with it and running down the middle of the expressway is the best. Id continue the Red line down I-57 to 119th. st or build it as a branch line that connects to 95th st. station that&#8217;s the best possible solution for the lowest cost. </p>
<p>Orange line yes the poster above was right extending the line would complicate things to much for midway its best to terminate orange line trains at midway and use it as a hub. In that respect a light rail system could be build from midway down to ford city and points further south (Oak lawn) to free up bus transit along Cicero. Again most cost effective solution Only the fact that we would need new light rail train cars and facilities would push the price up for that project.</p>
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		<title>By: train nut</title>
		<link>http://chicagoweekly.net/2008/11/20/next-stop-the-future-of-the-cta-on-the-south-side/comment-page-1/#comment-15543</link>
		<dc:creator>train nut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoweekly.net/?p=562#comment-15543</guid>
		<description>While it would be nice to see more train service on any line, the gold line proposal is not a financially workable proposal.  Metra&#039;s cars are about dead.  New cars cost about 4 million each since each car is a locomotive.  Couple that with the proposed $2 fare? you have to be kidding? Metra is required by law to recover 55% of it&#039;s operating costs out of the fare box.  the south Chicago trains are on average only 20% full and during rush hour never more than 2/3 full.

It appears, while a very nice idea, the costs are way out of bounds for a CTA type of fare structure to support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it would be nice to see more train service on any line, the gold line proposal is not a financially workable proposal.  Metra&#8217;s cars are about dead.  New cars cost about 4 million each since each car is a locomotive.  Couple that with the proposed $2 fare? you have to be kidding? Metra is required by law to recover 55% of it&#8217;s operating costs out of the fare box.  the south Chicago trains are on average only 20% full and during rush hour never more than 2/3 full.</p>
<p>It appears, while a very nice idea, the costs are way out of bounds for a CTA type of fare structure to support.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Feldman</title>
		<link>http://chicagoweekly.net/2008/11/20/next-stop-the-future-of-the-cta-on-the-south-side/comment-page-1/#comment-15318</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Feldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoweekly.net/?p=562#comment-15318</guid>
		<description>Harvey Kahler,
You have a good point about the Orange Line extension; it would inconvenience travelers from the south riding the bus to Midway, as they would have to transfer to the Orange Line for the final 17 blocks or so of their journey. On the other hand, the extension to Ford City can also be viewed as a first step towards an Orange Line that extends even further to the south or southwest. Also, given Midway&#039;s current congestion, it would be useful to separate out those routes that primarily carry commuters to the CTA (which would then be moved south to terminate at Ford City) and those that primarily carry people to the airport (which would continue to terminate at Midway).

You and the commenter before you are quite right to point out that James Withrow&#039;s Gold Line proposal had its origins and inspiration in Mike Payne&#039;s Gray Line idea. I agree with all your comments on extending CTA service to the other Metra Electric branches, and I&#039;d only add that the South Chicago branch might be the best place to start. If it proves to be a success, it will be easier to take on the Blue Island branch and Hegewisch.
-Sam Feldman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harvey Kahler,<br />
You have a good point about the Orange Line extension; it would inconvenience travelers from the south riding the bus to Midway, as they would have to transfer to the Orange Line for the final 17 blocks or so of their journey. On the other hand, the extension to Ford City can also be viewed as a first step towards an Orange Line that extends even further to the south or southwest. Also, given Midway&#8217;s current congestion, it would be useful to separate out those routes that primarily carry commuters to the CTA (which would then be moved south to terminate at Ford City) and those that primarily carry people to the airport (which would continue to terminate at Midway).</p>
<p>You and the commenter before you are quite right to point out that James Withrow&#8217;s Gold Line proposal had its origins and inspiration in Mike Payne&#8217;s Gray Line idea. I agree with all your comments on extending CTA service to the other Metra Electric branches, and I&#8217;d only add that the South Chicago branch might be the best place to start. If it proves to be a success, it will be easier to take on the Blue Island branch and Hegewisch.<br />
-Sam Feldman</p>
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		<title>By: Harvey I Kahler</title>
		<link>http://chicagoweekly.net/2008/11/20/next-stop-the-future-of-the-cta-on-the-south-side/comment-page-1/#comment-15313</link>
		<dc:creator>Harvey I Kahler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoweekly.net/?p=562#comment-15313</guid>
		<description>What does a guy on the North Side have to say about any of this?  Well I worked for the Chicago Area Transportation Study, now part of Chicago Metropolitan Transportation and Planning (CMAP), and thought about the issues for a long time.

Orange Line Extension:
Until last year, I thought extending the Orange Line to Ford City was the only reasonable rail expansion proposal on the table for all the reasons given in the article.  I have since come to understand that this extension would disrupt service to Midway Airport that comprises a natural transportation center and travel destination.  Truncating buses at Ford City would imposes an inconvenience, time, and a cost for the transfer for this relatively short distance.
Furthermore, I see the Midway bus terminal expanding to  host express routes, foremost to Rosemont and to West Suburban employment centers such as Willow Springs, Oakbrook, O&#039;Hare, Elmhurst-Addison and Thorndale; and to Metra connections at Hinsdale, Elmhurst, and Bensenville to outlying western suburbs.  These express routes would use the Tri-State Tollway for much of the way.
For these reasons, I would rather see a busway constructed between Ford City and Midway if traffic congestion and signals on Cicero result in significant differences in passenger-hours of travel or unrealized potential riders.  
However, there may be a trade-off for the majority of riders continuing beyond Midway that also need to be considered.  Would more transit users be gained with additional suburban access than lost potential new or diverted transit riders traveling into the city?

Gold Line:
James Withrow is credited here for suggesting the Gold Line; but I know Mike Payne has pushed this idea as the Gray Line for a number of years.  Mike also proposed extending Gray Line service to 115th (at Cottage Grove) on the Mainline.  I strongly urge expanding Gold Line service to include the Mainline with branches to Blue Island and Hegewisch.  These branches provide local services mostly within the city, reduce the distances for Pace feeder buses, eliminate the needs for a costly, nearly $1-billion extension of a parallel Red Line, reduce competing express bus services, and offer integrated connections between the suburbs and City.  The CTA express buses, albeit attractive for speed and cost, divert riders and reduce efficient utilization of both the CTA and Metra rail systems and CTA arterial routes.  The differentials in rail and bus fares and transfer costs exacerbates the problem.  A premium service is provided at a bargain price.  In the Loop, precious street lane capacity is consumed by buses.
I think it&#039;s possible to integrate a CTA Gold Line service with Metra without costly changes to segregate tracks through fare controls.  The challenge is for outbound ticket inspection at the gate or on board Metra and NICTD trains.  Boarding any inbound train after paying a fare is no problem.
I&#039;ve studied the Millennium Park (Randolph St) terminal and think there is adequate capacity for 8-min South Chicago and respective 16-min Hegewisch and Blue Island Branch (8-min Mainline) headways.  This would increase the average wait time by only two minutes in comparison to a Red Line extension.  
A reconfiguration of turnouts leading to the platform tracks may be needed at Millennium Park.  The other needs are a fourth main track between Roosevelt and Monroe, and a platform for South Shore (NICTD) trains at Van Buren, bi-directional signaling and positive train control, and expansion of 115th Street with at least a third track and second platform.
Additional trains would be needed for either a Red Line extension or the Gold Line, so the difference in cost would be small, given the need to replace life-expiring Metra railcars.

Green Line:
A new station at 18th St is a commendable idea; and so is Balbo, given development in the area and convenience for Loop L routes.

It is all the more essential to preserve the Canadian National tracks across the South Loop along 16th Street for a connection between McCormick Place and Union Station with connections to West and North Suburban Metra Lines.  Selected North Central (to O&#039;Hare Transfer) and Milwaukee District trains could be extended to McCormick Place for connections with the Gold Line, Electric District and South Shore trains and minimize the number of transfers for trips across the region.  This is especially important for improving access between high unemployment and job-rich areas.

The metaphore of a tree with roots on the South Side is unfortunately parochial and fails to address the needs for access between Chicago and its suburbs.  More fitting would be a heart on the South Side with  arteries across the region.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does a guy on the North Side have to say about any of this?  Well I worked for the Chicago Area Transportation Study, now part of Chicago Metropolitan Transportation and Planning (CMAP), and thought about the issues for a long time.</p>
<p>Orange Line Extension:<br />
Until last year, I thought extending the Orange Line to Ford City was the only reasonable rail expansion proposal on the table for all the reasons given in the article.  I have since come to understand that this extension would disrupt service to Midway Airport that comprises a natural transportation center and travel destination.  Truncating buses at Ford City would imposes an inconvenience, time, and a cost for the transfer for this relatively short distance.<br />
Furthermore, I see the Midway bus terminal expanding to  host express routes, foremost to Rosemont and to West Suburban employment centers such as Willow Springs, Oakbrook, O&#8217;Hare, Elmhurst-Addison and Thorndale; and to Metra connections at Hinsdale, Elmhurst, and Bensenville to outlying western suburbs.  These express routes would use the Tri-State Tollway for much of the way.<br />
For these reasons, I would rather see a busway constructed between Ford City and Midway if traffic congestion and signals on Cicero result in significant differences in passenger-hours of travel or unrealized potential riders.<br />
However, there may be a trade-off for the majority of riders continuing beyond Midway that also need to be considered.  Would more transit users be gained with additional suburban access than lost potential new or diverted transit riders traveling into the city?</p>
<p>Gold Line:<br />
James Withrow is credited here for suggesting the Gold Line; but I know Mike Payne has pushed this idea as the Gray Line for a number of years.  Mike also proposed extending Gray Line service to 115th (at Cottage Grove) on the Mainline.  I strongly urge expanding Gold Line service to include the Mainline with branches to Blue Island and Hegewisch.  These branches provide local services mostly within the city, reduce the distances for Pace feeder buses, eliminate the needs for a costly, nearly $1-billion extension of a parallel Red Line, reduce competing express bus services, and offer integrated connections between the suburbs and City.  The CTA express buses, albeit attractive for speed and cost, divert riders and reduce efficient utilization of both the CTA and Metra rail systems and CTA arterial routes.  The differentials in rail and bus fares and transfer costs exacerbates the problem.  A premium service is provided at a bargain price.  In the Loop, precious street lane capacity is consumed by buses.<br />
I think it&#8217;s possible to integrate a CTA Gold Line service with Metra without costly changes to segregate tracks through fare controls.  The challenge is for outbound ticket inspection at the gate or on board Metra and NICTD trains.  Boarding any inbound train after paying a fare is no problem.<br />
I&#8217;ve studied the Millennium Park (Randolph St) terminal and think there is adequate capacity for 8-min South Chicago and respective 16-min Hegewisch and Blue Island Branch (8-min Mainline) headways.  This would increase the average wait time by only two minutes in comparison to a Red Line extension.<br />
A reconfiguration of turnouts leading to the platform tracks may be needed at Millennium Park.  The other needs are a fourth main track between Roosevelt and Monroe, and a platform for South Shore (NICTD) trains at Van Buren, bi-directional signaling and positive train control, and expansion of 115th Street with at least a third track and second platform.<br />
Additional trains would be needed for either a Red Line extension or the Gold Line, so the difference in cost would be small, given the need to replace life-expiring Metra railcars.</p>
<p>Green Line:<br />
A new station at 18th St is a commendable idea; and so is Balbo, given development in the area and convenience for Loop L routes.</p>
<p>It is all the more essential to preserve the Canadian National tracks across the South Loop along 16th Street for a connection between McCormick Place and Union Station with connections to West and North Suburban Metra Lines.  Selected North Central (to O&#8217;Hare Transfer) and Milwaukee District trains could be extended to McCormick Place for connections with the Gold Line, Electric District and South Shore trains and minimize the number of transfers for trips across the region.  This is especially important for improving access between high unemployment and job-rich areas.</p>
<p>The metaphore of a tree with roots on the South Side is unfortunately parochial and fails to address the needs for access between Chicago and its suburbs.  More fitting would be a heart on the South Side with  arteries across the region.</p>
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		<title>By: gray line</title>
		<link>http://chicagoweekly.net/2008/11/20/next-stop-the-future-of-the-cta-on-the-south-side/comment-page-1/#comment-15312</link>
		<dc:creator>gray line</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoweekly.net/?p=562#comment-15312</guid>
		<description>The gold line proposal sounds quite like this:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.grayline.20m.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.grayline.20m.com/&quot;&lt;/A&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gold line proposal sounds quite like this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.grayline.20m.com/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.grayline.20m.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.grayline.20m.com/</a>&#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: James Reyes</title>
		<link>http://chicagoweekly.net/2008/11/20/next-stop-the-future-of-the-cta-on-the-south-side/comment-page-1/#comment-15310</link>
		<dc:creator>James Reyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoweekly.net/?p=562#comment-15310</guid>
		<description>The Gold Line sounds like a good idea.Several years ago I proposed building a temporary el line,the Porta-el.It could be used to help prevent Olympic grilock.Such a system could also be used for temporary highway bridges.It could   be used to provide temporary repairs to road and rail bridges after natural disasters or terrorist attacks.So highway and homeland security funds could also be used to design, manufacture and store such a system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Gold Line sounds like a good idea.Several years ago I proposed building a temporary el line,the Porta-el.It could be used to help prevent Olympic grilock.Such a system could also be used for temporary highway bridges.It could   be used to provide temporary repairs to road and rail bridges after natural disasters or terrorist attacks.So highway and homeland security funds could also be used to design, manufacture and store such a system.</p>
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